Muscle wastage and AMB

[Kezza2]

I previously posted this in another thread, but it doesn't seem to have gained a response, so I am re-posting in this forum.  I came upon a reference to HMB, or beta-Hydroxy beta-Methylbutyrate Monohydrate.  It appears that this compound, derived from the amino-acid Leucine, may be useful in counteracting the effects of muscle wastage brought on by  ADT or in my case chemo.  Does anyone have any additional information on this Dietary supplement ??   I will ask my med onc about it on Thursday when I have my next chemo, and it seems to be readily available either alone or in combination with other amino acids / proteins from a number of the body building supplement shops.  

Any thoughts ???

[stevecavill]

Dr Mark Moyad’s supplement handbook lists it as worthless.  Mark Moyad has a long history in supplements in general and prostate cancer in particular. I would trust his judgement. 

Steve

[Kezza2]

Found this article, which is worth a read.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4496741/#b35

[Patrick Turner]

2 hours ago, Kezza2 said:

I came upon a reference to HMB, or beta-Hydroxy beta-Methylbutyrate Monohydrate.

I googled this chemical and could not find any conclusion that it countered wasting effects with ADT or chemo.

Loosing muscles and becoming much thinner, loosing weight during cancer treatments does seem to be common, such is the total effect of treatment and cancer, both form total detrimental load on the total body systems, and everyone reacts differently. I have had ADT since 2010, had 15 weeks of chemo, weight has been stable, average speed in bicycle before 2nd Lu177 infusion was as good as many younger/older fellows who have no cancer and have full bottle of testosterone. I am 71. But if I was 81, or 91, things might be very different, ie, worse. 

Perhaps you'd like to Google more to find a positive scholarly online article about HMB.

It is possible nobody in this group has ever used it, but there are other groups with far bigger number of participants such as HeathUnlocked. 

The Princess Alexandra trial for oral testosterone might be best bet. 

Today I worked hard with another man to put up a fence up to noon. Then I cycled 20km to get lunch and coffee at 2 different cafes, it was 37C, and I had no aches or pains. I've done 0.5km in pool so far today.

I am still able to exercise enough to urge my body to not relinquish my muscles, and I enjoy my food which continues to nourish and refurbish my body for the next day's activities I expect it to be able to do. 

Older men who do very little exercise have a big risk of getting health problems whether or not they have high or low testosterone levels and / or cancer. There is one man in a cycling group I rode with last year who has thinned to a point where he has become very weak and slow, and he never talks to anyone about his problems, and I am not even sure he thinks he has a problem, but he looks very anorexic, and I know he hardly eats, but must be about my age. Maybe he has a problem that could never be fixed. 

Patrick Turner. 

[Bruce Kynaston]

Kezza2,

It is sad that men commencing hormone suppression therapy 

are not advised to commence an exercise program that 

includes impact components to minimise bone density loss.

As a retired radiation oncologist, when I began my hormone 

suppression therapy, bone density studies were done and 

exercises begun. That was about 5 years ago, and my fitness level 

is good for my age, 87.yes, 

Bruce.

 

 

 

 

 

I

 

 

[Patrick Turner]

Hi Bruce. Many aging men and women just cannot be convinced to do any more exercise than walking around at home and going shopping. It is sedentary. Active ppl tend to benefit if they employ the use it or lose it idea although advice is not given with ADT, maybe if should not have to be because we are supposed to not forget exercise is good. Countless ppl over 55 are allergic to exercise, or have many reasons why they should not exercise, and I see no reason to tyrannically instruct ppl of the proper lifestyle or else. A huge number of ppl just ignore all good advice about smoking, drinking, eating badly, weight, exercise, etc.

I am trying to exercise a lot while I can, but when I cannot, I'll just fall apart.

Catalyst on ABC a few years back showed bone density loss in old men on ADT could be prevented by them jumping over a certain number of 150mm high obstacles per day, but **every day** and many men just can't be motivated to keep up what is required to get the benefit. Walking 2km daily is also maybe enough, but who does that? every day?

A radiologist who measured my BD years ago said elite young swimmer and cyclist athletes from AIS sometimes had bad low BD because they did all their exercise lying down or sitting down. No problems with runners.

I cycle a lot, excellent for cardio vascular but I need to walk too.

I have titanium knees, so running is out, and I'm frightened to ruin hip joints so walking it is. The new knees are not as good as originals when they were good and painless 22 years ago. I have a bad ankle, so gait is atrocious, but I don't have much pain as long as I don't have to walk a km without stopping. Doing a lot of housework with intermittent walks is OK, it all adds up, and I suggest worried ppl use a pedometer attached to a shoe, or some app which tells them how far they have walked each day. 

Patrick Turner. 

[Charles (Chuck) Maack]

This lengthy paper provides a multitude of references to access regarding this product.

Calcium beta-hydroxy-beta-methylbutyrate

https://pubchem.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/compound/56924543#section=GHS-Classification

As I performed a brief scroll down I found this that would be a bit disconcerting:

 

GHS Hazard Statements
Aggregated GHS information provided by 46 companies from 6 notifications to the ECHA C&L Inventory. Each notification may be associated with multiple companies.

Reported as not meeting GHS hazard criteria by 1 of 46 companies. For more detailed information, please visit ECHA C&L website

Of the 5 notification(s) provided by 45 of 46 companies with hazard statement code(s):

H315 (100%): Causes skin irritation [Warning Skin corrosion/irritation]
H319 (97.78%): Causes serious eye irritation [Warning Serious eye damage/eye irritation]
H335 (97.78%): May cause respiratory irritation [Warning Specific target organ toxicity, single exposure; Respiratory tract irritation]

Information may vary between notifications depending on impurities, additives, and other factors. The percentage value in parenthesis indicates the notified classification ratio from companies that provide hazard codes. Only hazard codes with percentage values above 10% are shown.

 

I’ll leave it to you or others interested to take the time to thoroughly read the entire paper.

 

Chuck